Really enjoyed reading this, Troy. Thanks for linking it via the BotNS post.
I don't know what Wolfe's intentions were when writing, though he certainly has a desire for the labyrinth and cryptic. As a loather of overt exposition, I am much more likely to fall into enjoying something that requires some degree of analysis of the text and thinking about how the pieces interlock. But, if it's done purely for the sake of making the reader's life difficult then I'm not behind that, but I can't help feel that that is *not* Wolfe. (Might be Joyce though, based on his quote!)
Oh I'm glad - give Peace and the podcast a try, they seem like very cool guys. It's strange, I've listened to part of that podcast, and I've read a book *about* Joyce and Ulysses, and been listening to a podcast about Ulysses, and I quite enjoy all the commentary, but even a year and a half later, I still can't swallow the idea that this is GREAT literature (speaking of Ulysses here) which - and this might be my mistake - other writers should aspire to? Maybe that's the blinder I'm wearing, in part - I can accept that it is a thrilling and fascinating read for some people who really dig excavating these puzzles - maybe I should also just accept that some people think it's the most wonderful thing without feeling like they are somehow dissing more straightforward storytelling. We live, we let it go, it's the only way. ;) Thanks, Nathan!
Yeah, don't sweat it. Reminds me a bit of trying to slog through Gravity's Rainbow, a book that is lauded for all manner of reasons. I just can't do it. Every page takes me an eon. Some writing just isn't meant for specific people, and that's totally ok. I think it's also why some people frown upon "literary fiction" because there is this thing generated by certain authors and their opinions. But that's ok. There's a near-infinite amount of great books to be read, and such is the rich diversity of reading that we all have subtly or not-so-subtly different tastes. 😊
Well this just about confirms that I will not read it lol. Did Joyce really say that? What a douscher. People like that its like yes, I’m sure you are talented but you would suck to hang out with lol
Mar 4, 2023·edited Mar 4, 2023Liked by Mr. Troy Ford
Reading this post has led me to believe that perhaps the very notion of intrinsic greatest in art is itself but a construct to influence collective cultural aspirations. Change the cultural context and what is considered great changes. Sharing common background and cultural touchstones not only provides a roadmap to better understand the refinement, complexities and subtleties of a work, but also generates a sense of belonging to a group of insiders who “get it”. On an entirely different level, if an artist considers their work great because of the effort, ingenuity and skill applied, that’s valid. But if I don’t “get it”, it’s purported greatest only serves to make me feel excluded. I can choose to analyse the hell out of it and better appreciate it. Or not. It’s sort of like hearing a great joke but not getting it. Then someone explains it and you go hahaha. Tepid. Nothing like having grasped it yourself. To end this rambling comment, I will call on the famous saying that tells us that anything worth having is worth fighting for.
I wonder sometimes for whom writers write. I understand people have different tastes, but a writer may want their work to be accessible even in a niche genre. Although I also don't mind working my brain a little bit when reading a poem, then coming back to that poem, and it's a completely different interpretation.
There's definitely a niche for Wolfe - people who love speculative fiction and puzzles - but I wonder if such authors overestimate the weight of their riddles? Thanks for having a look, Nadia. :)
Haha. Very true. It makes me think of video games with puzzles that make zero sense, and I'm amazed how anyone was able to solve them. Thank you for your insight!
Really enjoyed reading this, Troy. Thanks for linking it via the BotNS post.
I don't know what Wolfe's intentions were when writing, though he certainly has a desire for the labyrinth and cryptic. As a loather of overt exposition, I am much more likely to fall into enjoying something that requires some degree of analysis of the text and thinking about how the pieces interlock. But, if it's done purely for the sake of making the reader's life difficult then I'm not behind that, but I can't help feel that that is *not* Wolfe. (Might be Joyce though, based on his quote!)
Oh I'm glad - give Peace and the podcast a try, they seem like very cool guys. It's strange, I've listened to part of that podcast, and I've read a book *about* Joyce and Ulysses, and been listening to a podcast about Ulysses, and I quite enjoy all the commentary, but even a year and a half later, I still can't swallow the idea that this is GREAT literature (speaking of Ulysses here) which - and this might be my mistake - other writers should aspire to? Maybe that's the blinder I'm wearing, in part - I can accept that it is a thrilling and fascinating read for some people who really dig excavating these puzzles - maybe I should also just accept that some people think it's the most wonderful thing without feeling like they are somehow dissing more straightforward storytelling. We live, we let it go, it's the only way. ;) Thanks, Nathan!
Yeah, don't sweat it. Reminds me a bit of trying to slog through Gravity's Rainbow, a book that is lauded for all manner of reasons. I just can't do it. Every page takes me an eon. Some writing just isn't meant for specific people, and that's totally ok. I think it's also why some people frown upon "literary fiction" because there is this thing generated by certain authors and their opinions. But that's ok. There's a near-infinite amount of great books to be read, and such is the rich diversity of reading that we all have subtly or not-so-subtly different tastes. 😊
Well this just about confirms that I will not read it lol. Did Joyce really say that? What a douscher. People like that its like yes, I’m sure you are talented but you would suck to hang out with lol
He really did, and other crazy stuff too, and I've had such a hard time digesting how people reconcile those sorts of statements and his "genius"...
i think for a lot of people, the two go hand in hand.
Oh, the pushback on this one! My mea culpa (not apologizing but def see how I flubbed) will post later today...
Reading this post has led me to believe that perhaps the very notion of intrinsic greatest in art is itself but a construct to influence collective cultural aspirations. Change the cultural context and what is considered great changes. Sharing common background and cultural touchstones not only provides a roadmap to better understand the refinement, complexities and subtleties of a work, but also generates a sense of belonging to a group of insiders who “get it”. On an entirely different level, if an artist considers their work great because of the effort, ingenuity and skill applied, that’s valid. But if I don’t “get it”, it’s purported greatest only serves to make me feel excluded. I can choose to analyse the hell out of it and better appreciate it. Or not. It’s sort of like hearing a great joke but not getting it. Then someone explains it and you go hahaha. Tepid. Nothing like having grasped it yourself. To end this rambling comment, I will call on the famous saying that tells us that anything worth having is worth fighting for.
Now I know how Frodo felt going through Shelob's lair.....
for reals
I wonder sometimes for whom writers write. I understand people have different tastes, but a writer may want their work to be accessible even in a niche genre. Although I also don't mind working my brain a little bit when reading a poem, then coming back to that poem, and it's a completely different interpretation.
There's definitely a niche for Wolfe - people who love speculative fiction and puzzles - but I wonder if such authors overestimate the weight of their riddles? Thanks for having a look, Nadia. :)
Haha. Very true. It makes me think of video games with puzzles that make zero sense, and I'm amazed how anyone was able to solve them. Thank you for your insight!