haha thanks! People had some strong opinions on this one (and the last one) - I've been a bit daunted about continuing, though I've toyed with a couple of new installments...
Great piece, Troy, and pretty dang hilarious, too....always a plus! I'm appreciative of all what Dolly brings to the legend/diva table (particularly the voluminous song catalog), but Cher is rock'n'roll legend status, and for a reason you juuuuuust barely missed.
You see, Cher didn't enter "the scene" in 1965 with Sonny for "I Got You Babe" (or, as I used to love to spoonerize as a young'un with a hint of mint: "I Bought You, Gabe")....they actually met as session players for Phil Spector's productions at Hollywood's Gold Star Studios. Sonny was a regular percussionist on Spector records, and Cher was a background singer.
In fact, a 16-year-old Cher sang back-up on the March 1963 recording of the Crystals' "Da Doo Ron Ron" two months before her 17th birthday! Sonny and Cher married the following year. I brought the receipts, by the way: https://bradkyle.substack.com/p/tune-tag-with-nic-briscoe-of-the
Plus, you'll see two videos there, where Cher is dueting with David Bowie from her 1975 show.
Again, wonderful article, Troy, and for my money, as much as I dig Dolly, Cher certainly wins, and by a landslide!
When you wrote "great effort, but not a knockout," about Moonstruck my monocle popped out.
Then I had to run the math both directions when you wrote "Polyamory before everyone was doing it." But then I decided this was in fact possible, but highly unlikely, even in a more equitable Bechdel universe.
Silkwood would have taken out Whorehouse in Texas with one hand behind Mike Nichols' back. You've stacked the deck with your clever "I haven't seen it." My other monocle popped out.
I almost stopped reading when you included a picture of Dom DeLuise, and then I almost stopped reading with the picture of Cher in All or Nothing for completely different reasons.
And now there is a Saving Elephants Category? If we're just going to make up random categories, then how about Saving a Beehive? Point to Dolly.
Point to neither of them: that interview. That was tough sledding. Cole Porter is turning in his grave like he's on a pig spit.
(trigger warning below ******** strong language and grown up ideation below ********** please initial here, here and here **********)
They are both very strong in a category you didn't mention: GMILFs. Possibly GGMILFs. This one I'd call a tie.
Believe me, if I could turn back time on reading the word "MATCH."
("Team Dolly," he writes while burping cherry pits.)
That's some next level monocling, Adam. What's really baffling me is the protests about the wigs - THAT'S the faux accessory you're worried about??? I've got news for you, it's not A wig, singular; that's about 10 wigs all sewn together and AquaNetted within an inch of their lives... 😜
I love both of them. Musically, I'm with Dolly for the whole package because of her enormous contribution to songwriting. Moonstruck is a great movie ; wonderful cast and direction plus I'm a John Patrick Shanley fan. 9 to 5 is a fave, too. That photo of Dom DeLuise made my day
Dolly wins hands down. Anyone who can make a music instrument out of her nails deserves a permanent place as Queen Diva...what has cher got other than the elixer of eternal life?
This was great Troy. I will admit I do not know as much about these two Divas as I clearly should - they are damn interesting!
But I was blown away by how much expertise you hold in this area. Not only that but the factoids (I mean, the elephant), the humorous quips, the impeccable writing, and the scientific rigour with which you conducted this analysis was nothing short of exceptional.
Below are a few things I had to pick out as they made me laugh, smile, and nod along in agreement.
“Monocles in.” - love it
“I was a tad young for Sonny & Cher-Cher, and Middle-Cher’s music was a bit of a muddle, so I really didn’t become a believer until Believe, and yet, it is All or Nothing from the same album I’ll probably be screaming at the top of my lungs in The End, from my bespoke handbasket to you-know-where.” - absolutely brilliant writing.
“She may not be the Queen of County, but when she bleeds, Southern Comfort gushes out.” - hilarious
“I’ve said time and again that if we spent as much money on education as national defense, we could solve 80% of society’s problems within a generation.” - Amen
“And then there’s the elephant.” - wait what?! - this read is so fun.
“Obviously, I love Cinderella (obviously.)” - perfect use of the brackets!
"Deep down, I (am afraid of) respect Cher. Meanwhile, I LOVE Dolly" Too funny. And while you make a compelling point, I must deduce that the results have been tampered with, as you so eloquently have revealed yourself! Cher must win, out of your fear of having her lose against the one and only Diva Dolly. So you see, the real winner is the one you can love. ;)
Ok Troy I’m not sure if we can remain friends. Cher beats Dolly!? Granted, I must bow to your expertise in all things Diva but c’mon. Dolly is an incomparable force of nature with a heart of rhinestone encrusted gold. Regardless of your flawed result, I enjoyed the game. Such a fun trip down memory lane. I’d totally forgotten about the witches of eastwick!
Now, now, Dolly prolly wouldn't like that kind of talk, Ben... 😘 She would be the first to congratulate Cher, and protest, "I'm no diva, I put my wig on just like everybody else - with a staple gun." 🤣
Ok, now I’ve recovered from the America’s Grandmother round…I agree! As nerve wracking as this was (and I don’t know why, it was win win either way) it was such a joy to learn about Cher’s dedication to the elephants (minus the violently cringy image of her singing to one) and also of Dolly’s colossal library of songs - 3000?! The woman is a machine. Thank you Troy, I do so love your battles 💜
I wish I'd known about the cherry puke scene before watching it whilst tucking into a snack...! It's no good telling me the clue was in the title,...😂 Another film I've got to add to my to-watch list, if a bit scared about it...
I am rather squeamish, but worry not, the list of food I can no longer tuck into was already rather long...just adding humus and carrot sticks to it, plus cherries by proxy...!🤮
I’m late here (something, I suspect, neither Dolly nor Cher never are). Loved it. Almost as much as I love Dolly.
haha thanks! People had some strong opinions on this one (and the last one) - I've been a bit daunted about continuing, though I've toyed with a couple of new installments...
Great piece, Troy, and pretty dang hilarious, too....always a plus! I'm appreciative of all what Dolly brings to the legend/diva table (particularly the voluminous song catalog), but Cher is rock'n'roll legend status, and for a reason you juuuuuust barely missed.
You see, Cher didn't enter "the scene" in 1965 with Sonny for "I Got You Babe" (or, as I used to love to spoonerize as a young'un with a hint of mint: "I Bought You, Gabe")....they actually met as session players for Phil Spector's productions at Hollywood's Gold Star Studios. Sonny was a regular percussionist on Spector records, and Cher was a background singer.
In fact, a 16-year-old Cher sang back-up on the March 1963 recording of the Crystals' "Da Doo Ron Ron" two months before her 17th birthday! Sonny and Cher married the following year. I brought the receipts, by the way: https://bradkyle.substack.com/p/tune-tag-with-nic-briscoe-of-the
Plus, you'll see two videos there, where Cher is dueting with David Bowie from her 1975 show.
Again, wonderful article, Troy, and for my money, as much as I dig Dolly, Cher certainly wins, and by a landslide!
Thanks very much Brad! And now we know - 1963...! So, this year celebrating 60 YEARS in music... ;)
You got it, Troy! Definitely a year to celebrate!
When you wrote "great effort, but not a knockout," about Moonstruck my monocle popped out.
Then I had to run the math both directions when you wrote "Polyamory before everyone was doing it." But then I decided this was in fact possible, but highly unlikely, even in a more equitable Bechdel universe.
Silkwood would have taken out Whorehouse in Texas with one hand behind Mike Nichols' back. You've stacked the deck with your clever "I haven't seen it." My other monocle popped out.
I almost stopped reading when you included a picture of Dom DeLuise, and then I almost stopped reading with the picture of Cher in All or Nothing for completely different reasons.
And now there is a Saving Elephants Category? If we're just going to make up random categories, then how about Saving a Beehive? Point to Dolly.
Point to neither of them: that interview. That was tough sledding. Cole Porter is turning in his grave like he's on a pig spit.
(trigger warning below ******** strong language and grown up ideation below ********** please initial here, here and here **********)
They are both very strong in a category you didn't mention: GMILFs. Possibly GGMILFs. This one I'd call a tie.
Believe me, if I could turn back time on reading the word "MATCH."
("Team Dolly," he writes while burping cherry pits.)
That's some next level monocling, Adam. What's really baffling me is the protests about the wigs - THAT'S the faux accessory you're worried about??? I've got news for you, it's not A wig, singular; that's about 10 wigs all sewn together and AquaNetted within an inch of their lives... 😜
I love both of them. Musically, I'm with Dolly for the whole package because of her enormous contribution to songwriting. Moonstruck is a great movie ; wonderful cast and direction plus I'm a John Patrick Shanley fan. 9 to 5 is a fave, too. That photo of Dom DeLuise made my day
p.s. Thank you for your pledge, my dear, your support is much appreciated. 🙏
He was a hoot, the perfect villain for the Chicken Ranch. 🐥
Nope!
Dolly wins hands down. Anyone who can make a music instrument out of her nails deserves a permanent place as Queen Diva...what has cher got other than the elixer of eternal life?
I admit, I was rooting for Dolly…
This was great Troy. I will admit I do not know as much about these two Divas as I clearly should - they are damn interesting!
But I was blown away by how much expertise you hold in this area. Not only that but the factoids (I mean, the elephant), the humorous quips, the impeccable writing, and the scientific rigour with which you conducted this analysis was nothing short of exceptional.
Below are a few things I had to pick out as they made me laugh, smile, and nod along in agreement.
“Monocles in.” - love it
“I was a tad young for Sonny & Cher-Cher, and Middle-Cher’s music was a bit of a muddle, so I really didn’t become a believer until Believe, and yet, it is All or Nothing from the same album I’ll probably be screaming at the top of my lungs in The End, from my bespoke handbasket to you-know-where.” - absolutely brilliant writing.
“She may not be the Queen of County, but when she bleeds, Southern Comfort gushes out.” - hilarious
“I’ve said time and again that if we spent as much money on education as national defense, we could solve 80% of society’s problems within a generation.” - Amen
“And then there’s the elephant.” - wait what?! - this read is so fun.
“Obviously, I love Cinderella (obviously.)” - perfect use of the brackets!
Thanks Troy
Too kind, Michael, I'm glad you enjoyed, and it was your comment about the monocle last time which has made that THE Accessory of the Summer... O.o 🤣
Ohh awesome, I’m flattered to have had a hand in it. 🤣🧐
"Deep down, I (am afraid of) respect Cher. Meanwhile, I LOVE Dolly" Too funny. And while you make a compelling point, I must deduce that the results have been tampered with, as you so eloquently have revealed yourself! Cher must win, out of your fear of having her lose against the one and only Diva Dolly. So you see, the real winner is the one you can love. ;)
Thank you for understanding, Alexander, let's just keep this little insight between us... 😉
Mum's the word! ;)
I came here impartial. I leave feeling educated and entertained.
Well played. 😊😁👏
Who's next on the list?!
Who? Who? I have an army of alley cats working on this very question... 💙😹🙀
I'm guessing Barry Manilow versus Paul Anka the way this is going.
Like I said... Who?
No one can say you’re not committed to your subject!!! This was really funny. Who’s next?
Who is right, right? The selection of the combatants is almost as fraught as they battle itself!
Ah the memories! (Though I had to look up ‘Plop plop fizz fizz’!!) Hilarious. Thanks so much.
Oh what a relief it is, a classic jingle for some classic divas! Glad you enjoyed, Beth!
Ok Troy I’m not sure if we can remain friends. Cher beats Dolly!? Granted, I must bow to your expertise in all things Diva but c’mon. Dolly is an incomparable force of nature with a heart of rhinestone encrusted gold. Regardless of your flawed result, I enjoyed the game. Such a fun trip down memory lane. I’d totally forgotten about the witches of eastwick!
Now, now, Dolly prolly wouldn't like that kind of talk, Ben... 😘 She would be the first to congratulate Cher, and protest, "I'm no diva, I put my wig on just like everybody else - with a staple gun." 🤣
I have already registered my protest about this article elsewhere, but the "staple gun" deserves a call out in spite of myself.
Staple gun is a direct quote from Dolly. Also: "My doctor told me if I get one more facelift I'll have a beard." 🤪
Okay, Love-15 to Cher.
That’s a wig?! Oh my. Don’t ruin anything else for me.
It is NOT a wig. It is NOT a wig. It is NOT a wig.
I’m with Ben on this one: I’ll take Dolly
I’m going to need some time to process this...
Ok, now I’ve recovered from the America’s Grandmother round…I agree! As nerve wracking as this was (and I don’t know why, it was win win either way) it was such a joy to learn about Cher’s dedication to the elephants (minus the violently cringy image of her singing to one) and also of Dolly’s colossal library of songs - 3000?! The woman is a machine. Thank you Troy, I do so love your battles 💜
Sorry for the anxiety, Chloe, it was for me too, I love them both but there can be only one... 👑
All good, totally worth it. And we both know Cher would’ve come for you had the outcome been any different.
I wish I'd known about the cherry puke scene before watching it whilst tucking into a snack...! It's no good telling me the clue was in the title,...😂 Another film I've got to add to my to-watch list, if a bit scared about it...
I'm not usually one for that kind of visceral humor, but VC pulled it off. Hope your favorite snack food is not forever ruined, Mya! 🤢
I am rather squeamish, but worry not, the list of food I can no longer tuck into was already rather long...just adding humus and carrot sticks to it, plus cherries by proxy...!🤮
Super fun read 😂 I have no strong feelings about either of them (I know, sorry) but really enjoyed this instruction in why I should. 🤝
Glad you enjoyed, Jill, the combatants were quite worthy and I was definitely not threatened by the winner.
I felt exactly the same 😁
I'll keep my eyes peeled for Rhinestone with that ringing endorsement, Nadia! 🤪🥁💎